Write this Down! with Dot Bowen

[00:00:00] DOT: Hey, everybody, grab your Bible and a pencil and a journal, and maybe even a cup of coffee and join in on our conversation. But first, I would love for you to write this down, John 20 verses 24 through 29. Now, Thomas, one of the 12 called the twin was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, we have seen the Lord.
[00:00:23] DOT: But he said to them. Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails and place my finger into the mark of the nails and place my hand into his side. I will never believe. Eight days later, his disciples were inside again and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, peace be with you.
[00:00:47] DOT: Then he said to Thomas. Put your finger here and see my hands and put out your hand and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe Thomas answered to him, my Lord and my God. Jesus said to him, have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
[00:01:12] CARA: Hey everyone. Happy Easter and welcome to Write This Down with Dot Bowen. My name is Kara. I am DOT's daughter. And every week we sit down together and we talk through truth and scripture or what God might be teaching us. And in this episode we're talking about shocking Easter, but we are looking at it from the perspective of doubting Thomas and how Jesus meets us exactly where we are, no matter where we are.
[00:01:34] CARA: He will meet us where we are. So we would love for you to pull up a chair and join us in this conversation.
[00:01:39] CARA: Happy Easter.
[00:01:39] CARA: Happy Easter. You sure got your Easter dress
[00:01:42] DOT: I'm a little Easter egg. Yes, I
[00:01:44] CARA: with your pink. I have zero color on,
[00:01:47] DOT: Yep. You are just making me stand out better. That's
[00:01:50] CARA: I'm here to do here to let you be highlighted. And
[00:01:53] DOT: Yeah. I'm so sure.
[00:01:55] CARA: Anyway, back
[00:01:56] DOT: to Thomas. You gotta love little Thomas. Uh, here's Easter.
[00:01:59] DOT: And mean this is our crowning moment. This is every believer
[00:02:04] CARA: it. I will say this is not, well, it kind of has to do with Easter, but around Christmas I heard a pastor say, We tend to think more about the miracle of the resurrection versus the miracle of the incarnation.
[00:02:15] DOT: Mm-hmm. That
[00:02:16] CARA: This is Easter, but I was just thinking like, yes, the miracle, this is the miracle of all miracles.
[00:02:20] DOT: Yeah. It really is.
[00:02:22] CARA: And
[00:02:22] DOT: as I have been reading this, and grabbing her a little bit of, of John 20 and, and Thomas and, you know, poor little guy.
[00:02:32] CARA: I do kind of feel for him because I feel like,
[00:02:34] DOT: Known as the
[00:02:35] CARA: would imagine that he probably like lived, he
[00:02:39] DOT: Well, he followed Jesus gave his life for him.
[00:02:41] CARA: with Jesus and poor little guy is known as doubting Thomas. I would hate for my one moment of. Lack of faith. you know, to be like, oh
[00:02:51] DOT: in, in, in the Bible and for everybody to read. 2000 years.
[00:02:54] CARA: cool. Like I got scared one time. Yeah.
[00:02:57] CARA: And can't live it
[00:02:58] DOT: It's kinda like Peter denying Christ and not what he's known for. Yeah. Well, I mean it's, yeah, but. I don't think this is the emphasis so much on him as it is on God and on Jesus and his understanding even when he was with the disciples before he died, he kept saying, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna rise again. And, and no one was at the tomb waiting on it going, 1, 2, 3, you know, counting for Jesus to come out of the tomb. But.
[00:03:26] CARA: well,
[00:03:26] DOT: He was very
[00:03:27] CARA: isn't that like him to do what we wouldn't expect him to do. Exactly. Even if he, we felt like he said it,
[00:03:34] DOT: Even if he said it, and that's what he did. He told everybody that he was gonna die and rise again. And, nobody believed him, but I do believe that these are in here, these scriptures are in here to help us because I wasn't there. You weren't there.
[00:03:49] CARA: And
[00:03:50] DOT: I mean, you know, I'm old but I'm not that old and I wasn't there when I could actually see Jesus. And I love the the last part where it says, you believe because you see blessed. Are those or happy are those who have not seen and yet have believed? In other words, Jesus was thinking about us because we're the ones we're not there and we believe it. we need to think about him and believe in him it is just this Yeah. Moment of just Jesus understanding that we may have a hard time. Trusting in him. And you know, even in John 17, right before John 20, this happens, Jesus is about to go to the cross and it's called the High Priest Prayer.
[00:04:33] DOT: And he prays for the people that will come to know him and to believe on him through the, testimonies. the disciples, which is, yeah. These.
[00:04:44] CARA: Do you think that he, he, as in Thomas, do you think that he was doubting like, I don't believe this, or do you think he was just like, you know, sometimes we can see the Lord do something and be like, I can't believe, like, is this really, I can't believe this is happening.
[00:05:01] DOT: I feel like it might be both. I feel like he was in awe. 'cause he is heard that Jesus was, you know, raised from the dead and everybody's talking about seeing him.
[00:05:09] DOT: Yeah. I think he was probably in awe of that. But I also believe because of the fact that he. Went into detail. Unless I put my hand in his side, unless I can see his fingers, you know, the mark of the nails placed, you know, unless I can literally actually do this. It's not like if I can see it though, I'll believe it.
[00:05:29] DOT: But no, it's like, don't just show me a picture of this, even though they didn't have pictures back then, you know, don't just describe this to me. I personally have to not only believe it, I've gotta experience it.
[00:05:40] CARA: But also
[00:05:41] CARA: A lot of the reason why I've sold out for Jesus is because of what I've experienced with him, which isn't, that's good. That's just being human. So do you think that that's part of it too, where he's just like, in his humanness, he's like, I need to experience this. Like maybe he's a hands-on learner versus like a audible or, you
[00:05:58] DOT: Yeah. He's a, well, I think. And again, I don't wanna read into anything that, I don't wanna add anything to the scriptures.
[00:06:06] DOT: The warning, what I, I believe the character in the heart of God, allowing Matthew and allowing John the disciples to write about his story. Mm-hmm. and we know even at the end of John, it says, there's many more things God did that's not even able to write it in is because he was really thinking not only of that moment.
[00:06:30] DOT: Of when he would see Thomas. And the fact that this was part of Thomas's makeup of, I gotta know this. Yeah. I would call it a, fat check? Not fat, but fat.
[00:06:42] CARA: Oh, fact fact. Like the FACT one of those. Why was that
[00:06:47] DOT: Yes. And you know, and.
[00:06:49] CARA: and, and it,
[00:06:50] DOT: This is like I know there's gonna be people that they're gonna have to have more than what we are.
[00:06:56] DOT: And to be able to relate to Thomas because the character in the heart of God is a personal thing. And we all have our levels of spiritual maturity and our spiritual growth and wherever we are, whether we're at the very beginning of, life where, you know, Peter was so confident and he thought he knew everything, and then to find out he didn't know anything.
[00:07:21] DOT: Thomas now is starting out saying, I don't know what I believe or what I don't, and then he, his spiritual growth, you know, takes off from that place. Everyone has a, has a place where they are and God meets them there. And I think this was written there for us to have.
[00:07:38] CARA: you
[00:07:38] DOT: Hope 'cause scripture says that, that, you know, these things are written so that others have not seen, can believe.
[00:07:45] DOT: And Thomas is in here because he didn't, he's like, I gotta see this. And, and I think what, to me, what encourages my heart is God. Didn't, condemn him, he doesn't make him feel he meets him where he needed.
[00:08:02] DOT: If that's what you need, Thomas, then I'll meet you
[00:08:06] CARA: Yeah. You know what? I just realized what
[00:08:09] DOT: That it's in the scriptures.
[00:08:12] CARA: I just realized that Thomas is doubting. No, I just realized that. So like the disciples come and tell Thomas like, Hey
[00:08:21] DOT: Guess who? I bet. Mm-hmm.
[00:08:23] CARA: he's he back. and he's talking to his friends. So Thomas is like, like, think about you talking to your friend. You know, like me.
[00:08:29] CARA: Like, I feel like that's a very different stance where you're, where I, you know what I mean? I could see like a friend coming in and I'd be like, I'm
[00:08:36] DOT: you kidding
[00:08:36] CARA: Like, I don't believe you. Like, unless, you know, so there's probably a part of that where like his friends are talking and he's
[00:08:41] DOT: he's been a little bit vulnerable.
[00:08:42] CARA: Yeah, but what I noticed is it says it was eight days later
[00:08:48] DOT: in
[00:08:49] CARA: head. I always picture this
[00:08:51] DOT: Simultaneously.
[00:08:52] CARA: yeah, like he's like saying, having this conversation with his buddies and then like, you know, not like instantaneously, but within hour, you know, like the same night kind of thing. Jesus shows up, but it was eight days later.
[00:09:05] DOT: So that's
[00:09:05] CARA: really know what that means, but I think, well, I, I just think that that's, that says a lot of things.
[00:09:10] DOT: Yeah. That Jesus would knew that. So not only do you have the, the, the wounds and the scars and Yeah. All that. He's like, I know what you
[00:09:19] CARA: I know. But I think what's interesting to me about that is that this is where I think, and I don't, obviously we don't know what was going on Thomas's heart.
[00:09:29] CARA: But Thomas was sitting with this for eight days, like sitting with this doubt, sitting with this, and who knows what was
[00:09:36] DOT: what
[00:09:36] CARA: in his heart in those eight days. I'm sure like it maybe it got softer, maybe it got hard, his heart got harder. May I mean, who we don't know. But I think that's interesting.
[00:09:46] CARA: Like, I like the fact that it was eight days later.
[00:09:49] DOT: there could have been a lot more going
[00:09:51] CARA: curious. Yeah. And we'll, we'll never know. We can't know on the
[00:09:54] DOT: we talk to him when we get to
[00:09:55] CARA: Yeah. But I think that that's really interesting where, we don't know how God's gonna work. Like we might be sitting with and expect like, you gotta do it right now.
[00:10:05] CARA: But God's like, let me, no, I'll do it when I, I'll do it
[00:10:08] DOT: Yeah. And maybe
[00:10:09] CARA: You know? Like I'll clearly that was the best time for Thomas for it to be eight days later. I don't know, it's just a detail
[00:10:15] DOT: I think it'd be, I think the fact that it was eight days later means that Jesus wasn't over. wasn't listening. He wasn't there. He wasn't in the next room. He wasn't there, you know, to be able to hear.
[00:10:27] DOT: I think it's another evidence that got Jesus' God. 'cause see, the whole point of all of that was that. I am the Messiah and I'm God. And that was another level. It is kinda like, you know, you read the scripture where it says God is the God of the much more. And it's like if you are doubting and you want to know God, you really want to know him, then he's gonna show you who he is.
[00:10:48] DOT: And so not only did he meet, what Thomas felt like would. Need to be met to, for Thomas to believe. Yeah. He went beyond and said, I even know you said this. Yeah. You know, and maybe Thomas could say, well, the disciples or my friends told you I said that, but it, that's not said in there.
[00:11:05] CARA: Well, no, I just think that there's probably an element of timing with that mm-hmm. That we don't know for Thomas's heart. And maybe that's, maybe to
[00:11:12] DOT: maybe to receive it.
[00:11:13] CARA: Yeah. there's an intentional reason why he's waiting, you know? So anyway, I just think that that's.
[00:11:18] DOT: yeah, and I think it, the,
[00:11:19] CARA: interesting
[00:11:20] DOT: the thing is that
[00:11:21] DOT: God meets us where we are, and whether it's eight days later is that moment desperation, you know, or being able to say if you need to see it. Then I'm gonna show it to
[00:11:33] CARA: yeah, maybe he was more down maybe like eight days later. He was more down about it. I'm just kinda like, I don't know what to you, like maybe he was like
[00:11:39] DOT: and there was definitely a lot of conversation
[00:11:41] CARA: Yeah. Like,
[00:11:42] DOT: Jesus had been risen from the dead, so he is hearing all this. Right. It could have created more doubt or more interest
[00:11:48] CARA: And maybe he, 'cause I'm sure he was, 'cause Jesus showed up,
[00:11:52] DOT: that what you need
[00:11:53] CARA: himself. No, I was gonna say, Jesus really revealed himself to a number of people during this, after he resurrected, before he ascended to heaven.
[00:12:00] CARA: yeah, like I wonder if that was another level of Jesus meeting Thomas there, where if his heart was maybe a little downcast
[00:12:07] DOT: yeah. And I think
[00:12:08] CARA: maybe he didn't know what to believe.
[00:12:09] CARA: Maybe he was like, I wanna believe this there, but I'm, yeah. I need to see that. You know, I don't know.
[00:12:15] DOT: You know, the whole thing is that Jesus came down to prove. That he was the Messiah and he's God. And on the cross it was like, oh, you know, that's I'm not God.
[00:12:29] DOT: And if he's not God, then his death wouldn't help us. our hope is that.
[00:12:34] CARA: that.
[00:12:35] DOT: Jesus was God because only God could save us from our sins. Yeah. Someone else, there was two other people that were Yeah. Uh, being crucified, so they didn't,
[00:12:43] CARA: You're saying the fact that he died
[00:12:44] CARA: doesn't, the
[00:12:45] DOT: that he died is, you know, it, it proves that it doesn't please God, but the fact that he died for our sins and he's holy and was perfect and righteous, and that he's God, that makes a,
[00:12:59] CARA: his death meant something, but death in and
[00:13:01] DOT: And again, it's, it is a level of, I'm trying to show you I am God. I am God. You're not. I'm God you're not. And the whole from Genesis to revelation, I am God. I am God. You must love me as God. You must know that I'm God. And there's this longing in all of our hearts that is this more, is there more to life? You know?
[00:13:19] DOT: Am I. the Only one here in control. You know, is there something that I can hold onto that's far bigger than I am? And so God came to show us. Jesus came to show us he's God, but he wanted to show us who the father is, that there is God, and that we can have a relationship with him. So when Thomas, you know, and they decide to follow him and Jesus died on a cross and they know that he died.
[00:13:47] DOT: Then as you know, we talk about this all the time, that like that, that moment of, oh no, what now? Because God seems to be silent and God's dead, you know? And a lot
[00:13:56] CARA: like everything's
[00:13:58] DOT: And a lot of people think, still think God's dead. Yeah.
[00:14:00] CARA: A lot of things of going terribly or, yeah.
[00:14:03] DOT: And so there's that moment of that. And then what, there's so many things leveled at that are involved in the resurrection.
[00:14:14] DOT: In the fact it proved he God because Lazareth was dead and came alive. But Jesus brought him that way. Nobody brought Jesus alive other than Jesus.
[00:14:23] CARA: predicted it.
[00:14:24] DOT: And it predicted it. Yeah. Which is huge. But the fact that Jesus raised himself from the dead.
[00:14:31] DOT: Prove he's God. Jesus raised Lazarus from dead. So there's a message there that O death where is thy sting. God is far bigger than death. There's no death, there's life. So there's that message there.
[00:14:43] DOT: To me, I've, and I've talked to you about this so many times, what really I get stuck on is God meets us where we are and he understands, but why did God keep his scars, not just for Thomas? So, you know, I get irritated a lot of times because we talk about our wounds and we talk about living life from our scars, not our wounds.
[00:15:07] DOT: And so I think because of that we live in a culture where sometimes we excuse our behavior basically because somebody's kicked our wounds or kicked where we've been hurt.
[00:15:20] CARA: I think.
[00:15:22] DOT: That Jesus has a whole new meaning of the scars. I said I read now you're not gonna believe this, but I heard this song, it's a country song.
[00:15:29] DOT: I know. I mean wild and crazy here, but I heard this song. The only thing in heaven that's manmade is Jesus's scars.
[00:15:41] CARA: Oh, that's, I wonder what song that was.
[00:15:43] DOT: Well, I don't know, But you think about that. The only thing in heaven that is manmade. Because our sins put Jesus on the
[00:15:51] DOT: cross.
[00:15:52] CARA: We, we did those,
[00:15:54] DOT: is Jesus's scars. Now, I haven't talked to Jesus about this, but I think to myself, why did you keep the scars?
[00:16:04] DOT: You, you had the power, had the resurrection body. You didn't have to have scars. Was it just for Thomas or was it a reminder? of how much we need a savior and that his love for us, I'm willing to die for you. I love you that
[00:16:23] DOT: much
[00:16:23] CARA: I think it's just kinda similar when we talked about the names of God last week, just different perspectives of what you need. like this says that your scars don't define you like the fact that Jesus has scars. He's still, Lord, he was still perfect.
[00:16:37] CARA: Yeah. He still rose from the dead. He's still like he, everything that he says he is, he still is and his scars. Don't
[00:16:44] DOT: Just because something's happened to you doesn't mean that. Yeah.
[00:16:47] CARA: It's like they don't define him. It doesn't change what he did. You know? It doesn't change the resurrection. It doesn't change the importance of it. It doesn't change his calling.
[00:16:56] CARA: It doesn't change the, it changed nothing.
[00:16:58] DOT: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:59] CARA: Like they're, they're a part of his story and it happened and it happens. Yeah. if anything it makes it more powerful, you know what I mean? Like, it makes the fact that he has his scars make. Everything else more powerful.
[00:17:10] DOT: that's huge. And I think it's a great perspective. And I've thought of that in, in
[00:17:14] CARA: I mean, great. Both are great. I'm just saying like, that's how, when I, I'm like, oh, like that doesn't, like my scars don't identify me. They're not my, they don't define me. Yes. That they happen.
[00:17:24] CARA: Yes. That is something that the Lord brought me through, just like with Jesus.
[00:17:28] DOT: you know, our scars sometimes helps other people.
[00:17:33] CARA: Mm.
[00:17:33] DOT: It helps us to understand, I know what you're going through. I'm not saying that we ever should applaud sin or bad, you know, things that, you know, I'm not saying that at all, but
[00:17:45] CARA: saying it's okay, but just like look at like this does not, this does
[00:17:47] DOT: this does not define you. You're still,
[00:17:51] CARA: I'm still,
[00:17:51] DOT: of God and, and your value
[00:17:53] CARA: have value. Yeah.
[00:17:54] DOT: but it also helps you to.
[00:17:57] DOT: identify or relate, you know, or be
[00:18:02] CARA: empathetic. Yeah.
[00:18:03] DOT: to someone else. And you know, obviously scripture tells us that Jesus humbled himself became a man
[00:18:10] DOT: so that, we can understand that we have a high priest that understands our hurt and our, and what we're going through. And, you know, and again, as a father, Jesus,
[00:18:19] DOT: We're not exempt from the effects of the world, we're still gonna get hurt by people. The fact that no one was at the tomb, where was his friends? and, and you know, and I've been there, I've been there where I've thought, where are my friends? you know, those kind of things are, are misunderstood, or, or everybody had, and, and even with, as powerful as the resurrection is, that's huge for us.
[00:18:44] DOT: 'cause again. Jesus had to die. Yeah. And he's the only one that could die.
[00:18:48] DOT: So the cross is huge.
[00:18:50] CARA: Yeah. If he didn't resurrect then,
[00:18:51] DOT: didn't, but if he didn't resurrect, he's just another man that died. I think that for us, when we're talking about faith and being able to trust that, I look at like Thomas, I look at Peter. from acts own the change in their, in the way that they, like Peter couldn't even say Jesus was,
[00:19:15] CARA: Well, that
[00:19:15] DOT: was even with him to a girl. And yet now after the resurrection and the Holy Spirit comes Emmanuel. Peter's up there telling the Pharisees, you killed this
[00:19:28] CARA: man. Yeah.
[00:19:28] DOT: Yeah. Like, you wanting to put me in jail because I saved Jesus as a Messiah.
[00:19:33] DOT: You killed
[00:19:34] CARA: it. Yeah.
[00:19:35] DOT: I sometimes when I'm doubting
[00:19:37] CARA: mm-hmm.
[00:19:38] DOT: It's not that I always look, I I need to look at his scars. 'cause
[00:19:41] DOT: it can't, I know that he is there, but when I'm doubting, sometimes I go and look at. The disciples and how it changed and I think maybe Thomas was like, I'm hearing and Peter, you are acting a little strange and you're acting different, but I wanna, I wanna see it.
[00:19:59] DOT: You know, when we talk about, I think it's in, uh, two Corinthians 13 there, you know, there's gonna be faith, hope, faith and love. And the greatest of these is
[00:20:07] DOT: love. When we get to heaven, we don't need faith because we see him. We don't need hope because we've arrived. But we'll always love him. We'll always need and we'll 'cause for eternity, we're gonna be loving him and having a relationship with him and worshiping him. And as I look at the lives of the disciples and, and the resurrection and, and, and all of these things, I'm beginning to grow in my love for him because I'm getting to see him in different ways.
[00:20:37] DOT: That's what we're talking about, calm names of God and being able to know that if I were to go see Jesus today and I saw his scarred hand, I'm like, you did that for me.
[00:20:48] CARA: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:49] DOT: So it, it's one of those moments that it's a reminder of how much I'm loved by
[00:20:55] CARA: him Mm-hmm.
[00:20:56] DOT: and that he's willing to die.
[00:20:57] DOT: So you know, as we think about Easter and how important it is as a believer
[00:21:04] CARA: to say,
[00:21:05] DOT: I believe this and I can't really explain it. Mm-hmm. Again, I think it goes back to what you say. But I've experienced it
[00:21:13] CARA: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:14] DOT: and you cannot deny it.
[00:21:17] CARA: Yeah.
[00:21:17] DOT: I guess you could.
[00:21:18] CARA: explain it. I don't, I don't even think.
[00:21:21] DOT: I
[00:21:22] CARA: someone was like, explain your experience. I'm like, I don't know. It's, it's a, like a story that's in the,
[00:21:27] CARA: um, in the New Testament where some, he heal, Jesus heals someone and they're like, well, who did this? You know, they're asking him all these questions. He's like, listen, I don't know. All I know is I was blind.
[00:21:35] CARA: Now I can see, and that's how I feel sometimes. I'm like, listen, I don't know how it works. I don't know, like ins and out. All I know is I was a mess and now I have peace, or now I'm, you know, like,
[00:21:47] DOT: yes, you've, you've lived it, you've experienced it.
[00:21:50] DOT: Mm-hmm. And that's what this is. I think the touching of his hands, Thomas has hurt. He is risen from the dead. People are all talking about it. You know, you
[00:21:59] CARA: 'cause like I, I know I have not seen Jesus like the way that the disciples seen Jesus. But even I read that and I'm like, I feel like I have seen Jesus,
[00:22:08] CARA: you
[00:22:08] DOT: seen him work in your life.
[00:22:09] CARA: Yeah. So, it's different Because I haven't seen a physical body.
[00:22:13] CARA: I mean, I look forward to that day, but. I've seen the presence of him in the sense of the healing that he's done in my heart or the, peace that he's given me, or the security and the confidence just in being a child of God or you know, like identity. You know, like all those things that, so I'm like, I feel like I have kinda seen him.
[00:22:33] DOT: I think that's frustrating for us sometimes because we know the importance. Yeah. We
[00:22:40] DOT: know experience.
[00:22:41] CARA: and that's my prayer for people that, you know, friends that I have that I'm like, I want them to know you. Like I know you. Yeah.
[00:22:47] CARA: But, and I know you this way because of my experience with you
[00:22:50] DOT: and it's all the work of the Holy Spirit. It's all, it's all God meeting us in that room and going, I know you, I know what you're struggling
[00:22:58] DOT: with.
[00:23:00] CARA: You're doubting, aren't you, Thomas,
[00:23:02] DOT: you know Thomas
[00:23:03] CARA: and how like intentionally re like personal that is.
[00:23:06] CARA: Because like the other disciples didn't need that, but he knew. Thomas did and He
[00:23:09] CARA: met him there, and that is. That's why I think when I started the conversation with you is what's been going on in my head. God meets right there. knows us so well. He's not condemning him. He's not, you know,
[00:23:23] CARA: and the other disciples
[00:23:24] DOT: and he still called him. He still called him a disciple.
[00:23:27] CARA: Right. Well, and the, I mean, the, his buddies, the other disciples could have been like, Thomas, why do you need to see that? You know, like, they could have, and
[00:23:33] DOT: or listen to me. I saw him. You don't need to
[00:23:35] CARA: But
[00:23:36] CARA: yeah. Jesus was so intentional and
[00:23:38] CARA: kind.
[00:23:39] DOT: Yeah. and
[00:23:40] DOT: and
[00:23:41] CARA: and yeah. To just be like, Hey, I know you, I know what you need.
[00:23:45] CARA: I know you need.
[00:23:46] CARA: this
[00:23:46] DOT: And, and I think that for me, as we're, looking forward to Easter and celebrating, it is a huge miracle. Don't get me wrong. And, and it was a long time ago, but it's these miracles I see what God's doing, he's resurrecting in me.
[00:24:05] DOT: Faith,
[00:24:05] DOT: when I don't have it.
[00:24:07] DOT: He's resurrecting, my love for him when I don't have it. He,
[00:24:12] CARA: Hope when I
[00:24:13] CARA: feel hopeless, When you feel hopeless. and those are the things you cannot explain. And since we can't do it even in our own lives, how are we gonna, we can't give that to someone
[00:24:25] CARA: else. Mm-hmm.
[00:24:26] DOT: So many people, Kara say, oh, they just think it's just great that we do this, that we have this conversation and that you're my daughter and you can do it.
[00:24:34] DOT: And then they, you know, oh, it's so great that your, your children love Jesus. And oh, it's just so great that you know your grandkids love Jesus. And I'm, I think all that's great.
[00:24:44] DOT: Yeah.
[00:24:45] DOT: So what did you do? What did you do? And
[00:24:49] CARA: of me is, I'm like, why do you think I love Jesus? Because it's something you did.
[00:24:52] CARA: Exactly. And
[00:24:54] DOT: and I would not take the responsibility of
[00:24:55] CARA: I will say, I mean, my love for Jesus is definitely where it's, I mean, you've helped. Yeah. But you didn't do it.
[00:25:02] DOT: I didn't do it in me either. Right. And that's where I saw, I say like, don't, you know, don't gimme credit. You know, if, and I, we've talked about this a lot, you know, if you decide to walk away from God, that's, that's not my responsibility either, and I can't do anything about that either.
[00:25:18] DOT: Nor can I give you a heart to love God, I can. I could be a light and we're gonna talk about that in weeks ahead, about, you know, I can be a light in the dark world. I can tell you the truth, but it's the working of God in your life on a daily basis, drawing you closer to him, that is a God.
[00:25:38] DOT: And I think, you know, for moms and. Friends that you see, you're praying for people to come to know Jesus and, and you want to grow. It is just in your love for Jesus. You just gotta empty yourself up and just say, God, you gotta do it.
[00:25:54] CARA: Well I always say, I'm like, you want this more than I do you want him or her, or.
[00:25:59] CARA: These people to, you want
[00:26:01] DOT: love you.
[00:26:01] DOT: Mm-hmm. To
[00:26:02] CARA: love you more than I do.
[00:26:05] DOT: Now, and I, and it gets really tricky and I don't wanna get into theology here. Where God does want that. And God is, and has done an amazing work and has given us the scriptures to tell us his story
[00:26:18] DOT: but he's also created us with the power to choose
[00:26:22] CARA: Yep. and those are the things that as we're praying for people, praying for people, I do, I do this, I just ask God to, to step in and give them a desire to choose to.
[00:26:34] DOT: If you just start with that. Yeah. Uh, give them a desire, do away with anything that would be an obstacle that they would not choose you. I don't think anybody gets up on a daily basis and say, I'm gonna do everything I can to destroy my life and make my life miserable.
[00:26:51] DOT: So there are choices in that, but if there's just a little bit of a, Interest. God will go with that. Just a tiny seat, a mustard seed of reaching out. then God, we'll meet you right there. He met Thomas there. He's like, you need to see my scars. I just happen to have 'em. I'll show 'em to you.
[00:27:11] DOT: It's just the way he is.
[00:27:13] CARA: mm.